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The U.S. Military's Assassination Problem

COMMENTARY: Software like "Bugsplat" is supposed to keep decapitation attacks precise. So why do we keep blowing up Iraqi wedding parties?

March/April 2008 Issue


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in 2004, when an American missile fired from a Predator drone killed Taliban leader Nek Mohammed, an observer told a journalist that the bombing was so exact it "didn't damage any of the buildings around the lawn where Mohammed was seated." It was an endorsement, if ever there was one, of the Bush administration's post-9/11 efforts at assassinations using what are known as decapitation attacks.

The practice, which is shrouded under a veil of intense secrecy, is generally regarded as warfare's answer to laser surgery: clean and accurate, cheaper than waging a protracted ground battle, and less risky for American troops. But in reality, these premeditated and narrowly focused air bombings often fail to kill their intended foe and hit civilians instead. "It's much more difficult to hunt people with a 2,000-pound bomb than people realize," says Marc Garlasco, who until 2003 was one of the Pentagon's leading analysts of air strikes, including assassinations.

During the invasion of Iraq, Garlasco's job was to analyze targets with an eye toward minimizing collateral damage using a software program called Bugsplat. Days after Baghdad fell, Garlasco, intent on examining firsthand the military's success or failure in sparing civilians, accepted a position with Human Rights Watch (hrw) and traveled to Iraq to do just that. Among the sites he studied was a Basra neighborhood where the United States dropped bombs meant for Lt. General Ali Hassan al-Majid—nicknamed Chemical Ali because of his role in gassing tens of thousands of Kurds. Garlasco had watched the bull's-eye attack live on video transmitted from a Predator drone. "We cheered when the bomb went in," he says.

But Chemical Ali survived, and witnesses told Garlasco that they'd never seen him in the targeted location. As part of his investigation for hrw, the analyst met a 50-year-old laborer whose home was destroyed in the attack, killing seven family members. He found that 10 neighbors had also died. "When I stood in the crater and I was talking to the survivors," Garlasco says, "it wasn't so cool anymore."

Assassinations by air are a relatively new tactic in warfare. Only in the past quarter century has the United States developed munitions accurate enough to attempt a surgical strike against a target as small and mobile as a person. "Fire and forget" laser-guided Hellfire missiles were first used by the American military in Panama in 1989; jdams, or guidance kits that convert regular bombs to smart bombs, weren't employed until 1999 during the nato bombing of Yugoslavia; armed MQ-1 Predator drones came online in 2002 as part of Operation Southern Watch in Iraq. And of course, recent decades have brought dramatic advances in computer, satellite, and GPS technologies.

In the past, legal restrictions also prevented decapitation attacks. Since 1976, when it was revealed that the cia had made repeated attempts on the life of Fidel Castro, every American president has issued an executive order banning political assassinations. This ban, however, never applied to leaders with whom the United States is at war, and so the military has launched strikes against Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, and Osama bin Laden, among others.

In his first speech after 9/11, President Bush promised to hit terrorists with "dramatic strikes visible on TV and covert operations secret even in success." Since then, the administration has argued that the war on terror's battlefield is global, and it has expanded decapitation strikes accordingly—aiming them at targets across the Muslim world.

virtually all aspects of the assassination program are classified, and so information about it has emerged only in bits and pieces. In January 2006, the Los Angeles Times reported that unnamed officials had confirmed that Predator drones bearing Hellfire missiles—the preferred weapon in decapitation bombings—had hit "terrorist suspects overseas" at least 19 times since 9/11. "The Predator strikes have killed at least four senior Al Qaeda leaders," according to the Times sources, "but also many civilians, and it is not known how many times they missed their targets."

There have been media accounts of at least nine other such strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia, where members of Al Qaeda are thought to be hiding. Dozens more have been conducted in Afghanistan, according to William M. Arkin, a military expert and author of the Washington Post's Early Warning blog. In Iraq, the military claims, more than 200 Al Qaeda operatives have been eliminated by air strikes, be they targeted killings or broader-based attacks.

"The sense in the military and in Washington, D.C., is that U.S. efforts to hunt Al Qaeda are succeeding," says Congressman Adam Smith (D-Wash.), the chair of the House subcommittee responsible for unconventional warfare and special operations. "Most people understand that there are risks—of collateral damage or [retaliation]." The upside, he says, is the degree to which targeted bombings disrupt Al Qaeda's operations. "They can't just pick up the phone. They can't do a wire transfer without thinking, 'Is this going to be something that they're going to pick up on?' There have been a number of these guys just walking down the street, and BOOM! They didn't know we knew them, and we wiped them out. That puts Al Qaeda's supporters back on their heels."

Or, as a U.S. diplomat who requested anonymity put it, "Aside from the fact that we spend hundreds of millions of dollars per head chasing high-value terrorists, I think it's good for these guys to know they'll be hunted forever. It'll make people think twice about committing terror against the U.S."

Bravado aside, of course, the fact remains that "bringing a Hellfire missile onto a house in a remote village of a remote country is an incredibly laborious and expensive operation," as Arkin puts it. Intelligence is generally limited; the military may be working from a blurry photo or composite drawing. In 2001, U.S. officials mistook a convoy of elders headed for Afghan president Hamid Karzai's inauguration for a Taliban group and bombed it, reportedly killing some 20 civilians. In Iraq, U.S. warplanes tried to hit Saddam and his deputies based on their sat-phone signals, though these only pinpoint a phone to within about a city block. hrw found that not a single air strike aimed at Saddam's henchmen during the invasion achieved its objective, and instead, dozens of civilians were killed. The "complete lack of success and the significant civilian losses" showed a disregard for civilian casualties, in violation of the laws of war, the organization concluded.

Despite advances in technology, planning targeted bombings depends on gathering reliable human intelligence, notes retired Colonel Tex DeAtkine, a Middle East expert who trained Special Operations Forces for more than 18 years. "You just don't get brothers, uncles, and nephews to rat on each other," he says. The United States may get false tips from informants looking to eliminate local rivals. When a promising tip is obtained, it can take days or even weeks to verify and act upon—and targets rarely stay put that long. In 2006, an attempt to kill Ayman al-Zawahiri in Pakistan instead killed 18 civilians. Later, intelligence revealed that the Al Qaeda deputy had moved to a new location two hours before the bomb detonated.

The military is working to reduce collateral damage, for example by more often conducting "pattern of life analyses" before launching strikes. This may involve gathering information from satellites and also from operatives who secretly track the daily patterns of intended targets, at least in places where they are safe enough on the ground to do so. But here there is a catch-22: Civilian deaths breed so much ill will, they make it harder to gather the very kind of intelligence needed to better target future attacks. "Let's say you have dropped a bomb and killed four terrorists on the first floor, but on the second floor you wipe out the grandchildren of the senior tribal sheikh," explains retired Colonel T.X. Hammes, a Marine Corps counterinsurgency expert. "Then you've actually created a problem."

essentially carried out by remote control, targeted killings evoke novel human rights questions. Without soldiers on the ground to make moment-by-moment evaluations, the burden of complying with the laws of war would appear to reside with commanders or intelligence sources, explains Gabor Rona, the international legal director of New York-based Human Rights First. "The fundamental rule remains," he says. "Targeting decisions must be made with a view toward minimizing civilian casualties. Anything less is a war crime."

That argument hasn't gotten much attention in the United States—unlike in Israel, which has been carrying out these sorts of operations for at least 15 years. Between 2000 and 2006, nearly 300 suspected terrorists were killed along with 129 civilians. That led Israeli human rights groups to file a lawsuit against the government in 2002. They argued that according to Israeli and international law, the practice constituted an illegal use of force equivalent to police shooting people instead of arresting them.

In December 2006, the Israeli Supreme Court issued a landmark decision in the case. While the court stopped short of an outright ban on Israel's assassinations program, it ruled that international law constrains the targeting of terror suspects. Currently, in order to justify a strike, Israel must have reliable information that the suspect is actively engaged in hostilities (such as planning a terrorist attack) and must rule out an arrest as being too risky. The court also requires that there be an independent investigation after each strike.

"It is when the cannons roar that we especially need the laws," the judges wrote. According to Joanne Mariner, an attorney with hrw, American watchdog groups haven't attempted to legally challenge air assassinations because U.S. courts are typically reluctant to restrict the president on matters of national security.

And so, lacking concrete information, the public is left to take the American military's word regarding the program's breadth and efficacy, says Jennifer Kibbe, an expert in intelligence at Franklin & Marshall College. Under the Intelligence Authorization Act of 1991, the president is required to sign off on covert missions, and key congressional committees must be notified. But the administration has argued that those requirements don't apply in the war on terror. "The military is acting as judge, jury, and in some cases executioner," notes Kibbe. "And no one else is checking."

[Research for this article was made possible in part by support from the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting].


 

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In our quest for the perfect killing machine, We probally are opening a Pandora's Box we will never be able to close.
Posted by:MichaelMarch 5, 2008 7:17:28 PMRespond ^
This not I mean NOT rockin in the free world. I tell new union folk that we do things well because we can. Yes we can and since i am a Canadian .. yes you's can. Believe it and do it
Posted by:tglMarch 7, 2008 9:17:42 PMRespond ^
Also shrouded under a "veil of intense secrecy" are us war profiteers (and we aim to keep it that way). In Iraq, the oil is only frosting on the cake. We won't make as much on Iraq as we did on Viet Nam - not unless we can stretch it out much longer. Vote for McCain!
Posted by:Daddy WarbucksMarch 13, 2008 11:32:18 AMRespond ^
Unfortunately, in war, mistakes happen and we sometimes kill civilians and sometimes even our own soldiers. But the goal is to kill the bad guys. As General Patton once said "Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. " and the UAS is a very good tool in making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
Posted by:RaulMarch 13, 2008 1:52:03 PMRespond ^
I agree with the comment by Michael re: opening a Pandora's box that we'll never be able to close. Fortunately, we can hope that they Chinese are developing similar weapons. We'll hear what happens.
Posted by:JacineMarch 13, 2008 10:06:37 PMRespond ^
Vote for me, military's going on a diet, back to basics, and they'll be flying those propeller craft themselves or face being discharged on-the-spot, the Air Force should be training pilots, capable of operating, maintaining, repairing, and generally exhibiting the traits one would tend to expect from a Frequent Flyer in the wild blue yonder, there. Save the remote control toys for picnics, when you care enough to send the very best, have em sign for the fuel and take flight, as in, 'get in it, and go chase bad guys, and call us if you need anything', etc. Robo-planes? No thanks.
Posted by:BertMarch 13, 2008 10:40:42 PMRespond ^
Robotic war machines of increasing complexity and autonomy being used to fight our battles for us, and maybe someday becoming independent.Where have I seen this scenario, oh yeah, The Terminator.
Posted by:zqahttMarch 14, 2008 4:27:30 AMRespond ^
Smoking gun? The explicit description of "Bugsplat" is an implicit admission that Al-Jazeera's headquaters were targeted in the seige of Baghdad. Mr. Garlasco crunched the numbers and several journalists got splattered. How many other "splats" are there besides the ones listed on this website?
Posted by:JimMarch 14, 2008 6:25:40 AMRespond ^
I find it funny that americans still see the unlawful invasion of iraq as part of their war on terror. They armed and worked with both saddam and bin laden. They have learnt nothing from the war of attrition between the zionists and the palestinians. Arabs will never lay down their arms as long as there is an enemy on their land. You cant destroy their beliefs with bombs and bullets.
Posted by:DimejiMarch 14, 2008 6:54:05 AMRespond ^
And a targeting of the Pentagon, Congress, or the World Trade Center that happens to kill civilians is not equivalent?
Posted by:JohnMarch 14, 2008 10:51:43 AMRespond ^
The Israeli court's recent ruling on the legality of this practice under international law is of course all very interesting, but for Americans I think we have another question to ask.

Just where in the United States Constitution did those who drafted and ratified our basic form of government delegate to the executive branch of government the legal authority to identify, target, and murder anybody, anywhere, other than by using the armed forces of the United States against a legally designated foreign enemy combatant? Where is this James Bond license to kill bull[deleted] to be found within our Constitution?

What scanty legal analysis exists on this question suggests that some very murky language in the National Security Act of 1947 - generally authorizing the President's National Security Council and staff to safeguard the national security - is the sole statutory basis. While it is gratifying to be reminded that every US President since 1976 has issued an Executive Order banning assassinations (unless otherwise expressly authorized), this strikes me as a classic example of an exception swallowing up the rule with circular self-justification.

When James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and the other founders were divvying out the various legal powers delegated to the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of the proposed new federal government, do you think there was discussion about giving any of the three branches the power to draw up a hit list of folks to be murdered? I don't think they did any such thing. And they would be appalled to learn that modern presidents had assumed for themselves such a macabre power, particularly if the murders were to carried out through the use of some bizarre invention labeled a Hellfire for that unique and grotesque purpose.

Maybe we need to submit the issue to the Federalist Society as an exercise in moral values clarification in our Constitutional scheme of things.

Posted by:william t. streetMarch 14, 2008 12:53:53 PMRespond ^
To address John's question, those responsible for the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon are terrorist. Our Government once claimed to be above this sort of thing. Since 9/11 everything is justified and rationalized as The War on Terror.
Posted by:MarshallMarch 14, 2008 2:48:05 PMRespond ^
The best "software" is the one between your ears. Forget air strikes and give a SEAL team a chance.
Posted by:Bleeding-Heart LiberalMarch 14, 2008 4:17:06 PMRespond ^
I wonder why pinheads like Joanne Mariner, and their whiny, bleeding-heart crusades like Human Rights Watch don't attack and slander and sue the real abusers of human rights? When is the last time they went after the bad guys who wear black hoods while cutting off the head of a journalist or contract worker?
HRW isn't interested in stopping human atrocities and abuses - no, instead they just want to denigrate their own country. I find their words and actions despicable.

As far as civilians being killed by accident, commonly included as collateral damage, well, war is ugly and sometimes (most times, every time?) innocent bystanders get killed. Interesting/funny/ironic/sad though how HRW, Marc Garlasco, and journalists for this rag will condemn the US even though every reasonable effort is made to avoid civilian casualties, yet these same hypocrites won't pen a bad word against their beloved "freedom fighter" terrorist friends who wantonly, blatantly and consistently use men, women and CHILDREN as human shields for protection and as targets in their homicide bombing attacks.

You liberal phucks can suck my motherphuckin' hemorrhoids!
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 14, 2008 10:08:47 PMRespond ^
so called surgical strikes.
even surgeries go wrong./who came up with the idea of using misiles in such type of attack, I'm not very sure.
it is reaskier for a soldier to go in to do such job, but remember that a misile will not stop to recognise objective before exploding.
It seems that the military does not want to look like they are sending assasins to do a job but sending a sniper teaM is as sending a unmanned flyuing vehicle to deliver a bomb, execpt the sniper teaM is much more accurate, cost less and will reporta back the succes. would you send the military police to arrest this man?
Posted by:Dr.QMarch 15, 2008 10:42:55 AMRespond ^
Dear Moron,
Yeah, you're a big-ass hero. It's "kill 'em all 'an let god sort it out" imbeciles like you that are used for cannon fodder. Rah Rah. Kiss my ass.
Posted by:joeaverageMarch 15, 2008 6:43:58 PMRespond ^
Anyone with a brain knows that planes could not fly around our skies with no military response for over 2 hours unless someone wanted it to happen--as in "a new Pearl Harbor" asked for in their "Rebuilding American Defenses." I also find it amazing that we let anyone in the Bush family become a President when George W's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was involved in an attempted coup with the Nazis to overthrow the American Government.
Posted by:AlanMarch 16, 2008 12:13:04 AMRespond ^
Alan says, "I also find it amazing that we let anyone in the Bush family become a President when George W's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was involved in an attempted coup with the Nazis to overthrow the American Government."

Wow Alan, that's indeed amazing! How in the world could we let anyone in the Bush family even remain in the US, let alone run for and attain the office of President? Especially when their father/grandfather was, as you say, "involved in an attempted coup with the Nazis to overthrow the American Government."

Unless of course, rational people/voters just happen to get their news from sources other than Rosie O'Donnell and MoveOn.org

Here Alan, after you wake up and smell the coffee, take a peek at the AP story that ran on this topic 4 1/2 years ago:

WASHINGTON — President Bush's grandfather was a director of a bank seized by the federal government because of its ties to a German industrialist who helped bankroll Adolf Hitler's rise to power, government documents show.

Prescott Bush (search) was one of seven directors of Union Banking Corp, a New York investment bank owned by a bank controlled by the Thyssen family, according to recently declassified National Archives documents reviewed by The Associated Press.

Fritz Thyssen was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. His position with Union Banking never was a political issue for Bush, who was elected to the Senate from Connecticut in 1952.

Reports of Bush's involvement with the seized bank have been circulating on the Internet for years and have been reported by some mainstream media. The newly declassified documents provide additional details about the Union Banking-Thyssen connection.

Union Banking was owned by a Dutch bank, Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaardt N.V., which was "closely affiliated" with the German conglomerate United Steel Works, according to an Oct. 5, 1942, report from the federal Office of Alien Property Custodian. The Dutch bank and the steel firm were part of the business and financial empire of Thyssen and his brother, Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, the report said.

The 4,000 Union Banking shares owned by the Dutch bank were registered in the names of the seven U.S. directors, according a document signed by Homer Jones, chief of the division of investigation and research of the Office of Alien Property Custodian, a World War II-era agency that no longer exists.

E. Roland Harriman, the bank chairman and brother of former New York Gov. W. Averell Harriman, held 3,991 shares. Bush had one share.

Both Harrimans and Bush were partners in the New York investment firm of Brown Brothers, Harriman and Co, which handled the financial transactions of the bank as well as other financial dealings with several other companies linked to Bank voor Handel that were confiscated by the U.S. government during World War II.

Union Banking was seized by the government in October 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

No charges were brought against Union Banking's American directors.

Fritz Thyssen broke with the Nazis in 1938 over their persecution of Catholics and Jews, and fled to Switzerland. He later was arrested and spent 1941 to 1945 in a Nazi prison. His brother lived in Switzerland from 1932 to 1947 but continued to operate businesses in Germany.

The new documents were first reported by freelance writer John Buchanan in The New Hampshire Gazette.
Posted by:I Believe In Common SenseMarch 17, 2008 1:16:30 AMRespond ^
It is remarkable that so many Americans think it is OK for their country to go anywhere and kill anyone, without charge or trial, because some America says so. It is also remarkable that these same Americans then ask, "why to they hate us?"
Would you become a 'terrorist' if someone did the same thing to your family?
Posted by:fearnMarch 17, 2008 8:39:29 AMRespond ^
Trying to modify air warfare to avoid civilian losses is ironic, since air warfare was created to kill and horrify civilians in the first place.
After some initial tests in north Africa, Iraq was one of the first places were air warfare was practiced. White mans logic in the early 20th century was that since we are scared to fight the men, just bomb the women and the men will give up too. What has changed? Afghanistan got the carpet bombings promised by our corporations, 'humanitarian sanctions' in Iraq killed 1-5 million civilians (Clinton that time) , Our first strike at Iran must contain tens or hundreds of 'small' nukes.
This article describes a pr effort on behalf of the us army, a lot of money is used to give the impression that someone gives a [deleted].
Posted by:daddyMarch 17, 2008 9:53:55 AMRespond ^
It was quite a shock when the allied forces decided to throw away all decency and bomb white cities! These methods of warfare had previously only been used against other kinds of people.

I cant resist adding to the 'does anyone really give a hoot' theme... It should be easy enough for anyone to check how much DU has been dumped in Iraq,.. it should be easy for anyone to check the historical function of DU - A Permanent Land Containment Tool For Resource Rich Areas.
Posted by:daddyMarch 17, 2008 10:05:40 AMRespond ^
What is most disturbing about this article is the reality of the fact that what appears to be a large majority of us either don't care or don't believe they can do anything about it. We are ripe for a complete takeover of our government. And the camps are ready, for those brave enough to resist.
Posted by:Francisco Luis EspadaMarch 17, 2008 10:05:59 AMRespond ^
Can Dem house leader Pelosi put the impeachment back on the table, to help stem the mass murdering of civilians in Iraq and help to get that monster out of the white house.
Posted by:Eddie TMarch 17, 2008 11:24:33 AMRespond ^
The mistake "Did my part, how 'bout u?" makes is thinking "every reasonable effort is made to avoid civilian casualties."

In spite of this effort to win the hearts and minds of muslims, the U.S. is going to lose this multi-trillion dollar war.
Posted by:Mark Read PickensMarch 17, 2008 12:07:11 PMRespond ^
what a waste of resources ... 2 years of military spending could end humanities suffering forever... they will never tell you this
Posted by:warpigMarch 17, 2008 1:24:48 PMRespond ^
what a dog
Posted by:jwlMarch 17, 2008 6:33:22 PMRespond ^
If our military had "credible" or "actionable intelligence" that Osama bin Laden was hiding in the basement of YOUR apartment building, would that justify a missile attack on YOUR home? Keep in mind that your spouse and children are sleeping in an upstairs flat and have no knowledge there is a terrorist in the basement.

Even if you would voluntarily answer "yes" to the above question, keep in mind that the US military would never attempt such an operation within the US or any other Western nation (at least up until now) and the American people would not tolerate it. If it's wrong for the US government to behave that way within the US, it's wrong for it to behave that way anywhere else in the world.
Posted by:BillMarch 17, 2008 7:09:39 PMRespond ^
To quote "Did my part": "I wonder why pinheads like Joanne Mariner, and their whiny, bleeding-heart crusades like Human Rights Watch don't attack and slander and sue the real abusers of human rights?"

I think said individual is unaware of the nature of the law known as "human rights" - human rights are constraints placed upon governmental action, while state laws are constraints placed upon individuals' actions. Since when do these individuals, these non-state executioners, these "terrorists" constitute a state? Methinks "Did my part" is hopelessly confused.

On the other hand, "Did my part" should remember that if the US President can define anyone as terrorist without disinterested public scrutiny, and can order strikes at any time said US President wishes, it is time for "Did my part" to look for somewhere very, very deep to hide - because said US President is by definition, arbitrary to an extent that it would revolt the Founding Fathers - who after all, were dealing with "gentlemen" in London, even though they were incapable of accepting advice.
Posted by:Not in My NameMarch 17, 2008 7:13:39 PMRespond ^
Here's a headline unto which I'm sure the phaggot liberals will blindingly give a pass:
TROUBLE IN THE HOLY LAND:
HAMAS TERRORISTS BRAG OF HIDING BEHIND KIDS
March 13, 2008 © 2008 WorldNetDaily

"A prominent member of Hamas, a recognized terrorist group, has been captured on video boasting of using women, children and the elderly as human shields in its firefights with Israeli soldiers."

Yea, you liberal clowns have no problem letting shiite like this purposeful killing and injuring of civilians pass under your radar, yet let an American strike accidentally kill or injure civilians and you're all over it like a NY Governor on a hooker!
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 17, 2008 8:55:06 PMRespond ^
Fern says, "It is remarkable that so many Americans think it is OK for their country to go anywhere and kill anyone, without charge or trial, because some America says so. It is also remarkable that these same Americans then ask, "why to they hate us?""

Hey Fern - We, the United States, don't just go anywhere and kill anyone... not without first being attacked, or having an ally attacked, or having information that those we're about to hit are planning on bombing/killing us.

As far as "why do they hate us?"
Two replies - First, who gives a shiite if they hate us. For the most part, they're going to hate us regardless of attempts to appease them. And Second, if it's Muslims/Islamists you're talking about who hate us, THEY HAVE BEEN BORN/INDOCTRINATED/TAUGHT TO ALWAYS HATE US AND TO KILL ANY NON-MUSLIM! That's just the way of their religion. It's even written in the Qur'an to "kill non-believers." So you might as well take that information onboard and get used to it. To them, we are all "Kaffirs, Infidels, Non-Believers" and must be killed.

Some books you all might like skim:
INFILTRATION by Paul Speery
UNHOLY WAR by Randall Price
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT GUIDE TO ISLAM by Robert Spencer
ISLAM UNVEILED by Robert Spencer
THE COMPLETE IDIOT's GUIDE TO ISLAM
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 17, 2008 9:24:56 PMRespond ^
Not in My Name says, "Since when do these individuals, these non-state executioners, these "terrorists" constitute a state?"

Ahhh, yet you're right there in the sack with HRW and countless others claiming we should give these state-less terrorists Geneva Convention POW status and rights, just like any other state soldier, right?
Sorry Charlie, you can't have it both ways.
If they're state-less Armed/Enemy Combatants, then they are not entitled to Geneva Convention rules... and they have CERTAINLY proven that they don't/won't abide by Geneva Convention rules when they capture any of our troops or western civilians.
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 17, 2008 9:33:46 PMRespond ^
Not in My Name says, "On the other hand, "Did my part" should remember that if the US President can define anyone as terrorist without disinterested public scrutiny, and can order strikes at any time said US President wishes, it is time for "Did my part" to look for somewhere very, very deep to hide -

Where's the paranoia coming from?
Do you have ties to terrorism - is that why you feel a need for a deep place to hide? Good grief!
I have not felt the loss of a single Constitutional right, liberty or ability. And neither have you (unless you have ties to terrorism, in which case I hope you have lost all rights). But really, do you KNOW a law-abiding citizen who has lost precious rights? How has YOUR life been changed?
Or are you just regurgitating blather from MoveOn, Daily Kos, and pig-woman Rosie O?
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 17, 2008 9:44:53 PMRespond ^
Mark Read Pickens says, "The mistake "Did my part, how 'bout u?" makes is thinking "every reasonable effort is made to avoid civilian casualties."
That's right Mark. If not for our good conscience and humanitarian nature, we could go in and carpet bomb or gas 'em until all was silent. Don't think our enemy wouldn't do it if they had the ability. But we have the ability, and yet we don't do it. Give your own country some credit!

Here's a look at some numbers that might help all of you realize WE ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS:

16,791 Iraqi civilians killed last year by ISLAMIC Terrorists

225* Iraqi civilians killed collaterally in incidents involving Americans

Iraqis aren't dying from war or at the hands of Americans. They are being murdered by Islamic terrorists.

Go to
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
if you want a real look at what is going on over there, as well as eye-opening insight into Islam.

(Thanks to this posting by Wsasser)
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 17, 2008 9:55:46 PMRespond ^
I Believe In Common Sense, there's more to the Bush/JP Morgan story than you know. The AP story you quoted at length is just the laundered tip of the iceberg.

Keep looking.

---
Compost your tv.
Posted by:DanMarch 18, 2008 6:48:02 AMRespond ^
I did my part too, but didn't come home a phucking moron like you. You should check out your hero, O'Reilly's record on pinheads--meanwhile, who gave you access to the computer, idiot??
Posted by:GORDONMarch 18, 2008 7:18:59 PMRespond ^
People who commit mass murder in secret, spending billions of dollars and gaining only mass death, are so arrogant and lawless that they will surely expose themselves to judicial action, which will undo them entirely.
Posted by:Jay ChawlaMarch 18, 2008 8:41:15 PMRespond ^
GORDON,
Care to expand on your post a little? Some coherant details would help.

What kind of hate do you harbor that makes you think of me as a moron? Or perhaps it's not hate but an overabundance of gay liberalism - am I getting closer? You tell me which one it is.

And apparently you've researched O'Reilly's record on Pinheads - what did you find? What's your point?

Is your mom gonna come down to the local library and yank you off that computer when she finds out you wrote "phucking"?
Shame shame................
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 18, 2008 9:08:20 PMRespond ^
"...targets rarely stay put that long...Ayman al-Zawahiri...had moved to a new location two hours before the bomb detonated."

What makes anyone think that the intelligence after the bomb detonates is any more accurate (or honest, as revealed by the military or C.I.A.) than what they (later) admit was faulty before it?
Posted by:Jim HillMarch 18, 2008 9:17:35 PMRespond ^
To "Did My Part":

Your name calling ("pinheads," "whiney bleeding-heart,"phaggot liberals," "pig woman") betrays you as someone who has learned little in life. Most of the people I know who were in combat service to this country don't talk much about killing; vets I've known all the way back to World War I decline to talk about the killing and combat they did, and they generally want to see it stopped.

So, I'm calling you out. Exactly where and when did you "do your part" and exactly what was it you did?

Or are you doing your part here by being a war-mongering lurker, trying desperately to "shame" "phaggot libruls" into hating the way you hate?

News flash: that won't work.
Posted by:Parts is PartsMarch 18, 2008 9:53:13 PMRespond ^
Parts is Parts,
Ha! You’re funny, little miss sunshine. You’re calling me out! Nice try, but I don’t owe you exactly anything (besides, I couldn’t spell out specifics even if I did like you). But I will let you know I spent the last 3 decades on active duty, with most of that time spent in more than 30 countries overseas, taking the fight to the bad guys before they could bring it to the US. And of course soldiers generally want fighting to stop – you have no idea of the horrendous conditions we are put through in 3rd world shiiteholes, nor the countless days, months & years we are separated from family, missing our kids’ birthdays and the carefree, peaceful life here in the States. But rare (almost non-existent) is the soldier who would ever consider returning home before the job is done.
You say I’m name calling, but that’s the problem with living under politically correct rules for the past 15 years… it blows your mind when someone actually calls a spade a spade or puts an unvarnished opinion out there. Call me a dinosaur or whatever you like, I don’t give a Shiite – I said what I meant and meant what I said.
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 19, 2008 1:23:39 AMRespond ^
Hey, "Did my part", you might like to check out an incident called the Spanish-American War, and a battleship called the USS Maine. You might also like to read about a gentleman called William Randolph Hearst, and his newspaper the New York Herald. The last I heard, Admiral Rickover in 1976 concluded that it was a coal bin explosion - and I remember the 1970s news about explosions in the grain silos, and I believe him. The MidWest needed no commies lurking around the grain silos with bombs in their pockets ... and yet that was the excuse President McKinley used to declare war on Spain ...

And you say "Hey Fern - We, the United States, don't just go anywhere and kill anyone... not without first being attacked, or having an ally attacked, or having information that those we're about to hit are planning on bombing/killing us."

You remember the Gulf of Tonkin Incident? Solzhenitsyn quotes in the Gulag Archipelago introduction, the Russian proverb, "Remember the past, and lose an eye" He then goes to quote the next part of that same proverb, "Forget the past and lose both eyes."

Have fun ...
Posted by:Not in My NameMarch 19, 2008 1:43:16 AMRespond ^
You know, "Did my part", you make me sad when I read this: "If they're state-less Armed/Enemy Combatants, then they are not entitled to Geneva Convention rules... and they have CERTAINLY proven that they don't/won't abide by Geneva Convention rules when they capture any of our troops or western civilians."

Since when is that any reason to abandon restraint ourselves? Are you the sort of soldier who would've sent his girlfriend or wife a Japanese skull during the Pacific War? (It's the biggest US secret of that war - though certainly not to President Roosevelt, who claimed that he had refused the Japanese soldier's forearm bone letter-opener he had been given by that congresscritter ... not that I believe him.)

You'd _give_ them reason _NOT_ to show any restraint?

Anyway, as a result of the widespread use by the Allies/United Nations in the Second World War of non-state resistance forces, the Geneva Conventions of 1949, supplemented by the Additional Protocols of 1977, adopted some provisions protecting the rights of such to elementary decent treatment in case of capture. After all, since the Third Reich seems to be the standard of comparison in this case, you don't want people saying we're worse than the Nazis, would you? Or would you?

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and Relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts (Protocol II)

Article 1.-Material field of application
1. This Protocol, which develops and supplements Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 without modifying its existing conditions of application, shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) and which take place in the territory of a High Contracting Party between its armed forces and dissident armed forces or other organized armed groups which, under responsible command, exercise such control over a part of its territory as to enable them to carry out sustained and concerted military operations and to implement this Protocol.
2. This Protocol shall not apply to situations of internal disturbances and tensions, such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence and other acts of a similar nature, as not being armed conflicts.

Iraq is the site of a civil war between several religious factions. Kinda like the Thirty Years War in what is now Germany and the Lowlands. So it's not a sporadic civil disturbance or a low-intensity conflict ... because civil wars are never "low-intensity conflicts".

And so, the Geneva Conventions still apply ...
Posted by:Not in My NameMarch 19, 2008 2:15:57 AMRespond ^
Did My Part:

I think you've proven my point. I don't believe you've spent any time at all "Doing your Part" except for belonging to the 102nd Flying Keyboards, bombing people with epithets. I think you're a lurker who delights in trying to get people angry.

With you, I'm not angry. Just bored with the genotype.

Bye, bye.
Posted by:Parts is PartsMarch 19, 2008 7:12:02 AMRespond ^
Hasta luego Parts is Parts.
Sad to see you leave so soon.

But when you return to check on me (like you just did), I don't want you to go away empty-handed, so I'll leave you a final thought to take with you.

As we're in the middle of tax season, reading your post brought a sly grin across my lips (Hey Parts, you are an upstanding citizen who pays your taxes, right?).
Well, each year as you fill out your tax forms, know that I shall have thought of you with special appreciation every month, as I gratefully accept yet another military retirement check. And at the not-so-old age of 48, I might enjoy many years of monthly checks - God willing of course. Knowing that your contributions will be compensating me and thanking me for my service for the rest of my life means we'll always have a rather special link to each other. How ironic is that...?

Ta Ta Parts.
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 19, 2008 8:13:28 PMRespond ^
Not In My Name,
You're right in stating Geneva Conventions do apply. Although to terrorists, they apply in a basic, limited way. More on that later.

What I left off in my statement was “POW”, as in, “If they're state-less Armed/Enemy Combatants, then they are not entitled to Geneva Convention POW rules...”

The global war on terror conflict with Al-Qaeda is not governed by the Geneva Conventions, which applies only to international conflicts between states that have signed them. Al-Qaeda is not a nation-state, and its members violate the very core principle of the laws of war by targeting innocent civilians for destruction. Since Al-Qaeda operates by launching surprise attacks on civilian targets with the goal of massive casualties, our only means for preventing future attacks is by acquiring information that allows for pre-emptive action… stop them before they attack. If we wait until after their attacks occur, obviously by then it is too late.

Taliban fighters had an initial claim to protection under the Geneva Conventions since Afghanistan signed the treaties, but they lost POW status by failing to obey the standards of conduct for legal combatants, such as wearing uniforms, having a responsible command structure, and obeying the laws of war.

The reasons to deny POW status to terrorists extend beyond pure legal obligation, as the whole motivation in abiding by the laws of war has been reciprocal treatment: We obey the Geneva Conventions because our opponent does the same with American POWs. Obviously this is impossible with Al-Qaeda, as it has never demonstrated any desire to provide humane treatment to captured Americans. If anything, the beheadings, torture, and murders of American service members and innocent civilian captives declare Al-Qaeda's intentions to belligerently kill and maim.

No terrorist group is a party to the Geneva Conventions. They have not signed, much less ratified, those treaties. Moreover, it is evident that groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al-Qaeda spurn both the spirit and the letter of international treaties designed to improve upon the cruelty of war. Their bloody attacks in New York, Jerusalem, Bali, Madrid, and Beslan are testament to the fact that these groups seek to kill civilians rather than to take captives. And when Islamic terrorists seize hostages, brutality rather than humane treatment appears to be the rule.

In Hamdan vs Rumsfeld, the Supreme Court’s June 2006 decision did apply Common Article 3 to the conflict with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Supreme Court also held that “international” did not mean “global” but rather “intern-nation” or “between nations.” Because Al-Qaeda is not a nation-state, the conflict with Al-Qaeda was not inter-nation, or international. Under the language of Common Article 3, the court deemed the conflict with Al-Qaeda as an “armed conflict not of an international character.” In that context, POW status is not inferred to captured illegal combatants, but basic tenants of Common Article 3 should apply to them as a floor or baseline level of treatment, such as:

- requires that punitive sentences and executions be pronounced only by a “regularly constituted court” that “afford[s] all the judicial guarantees … recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples” (I would add that since US Military Courts are also used to prosecute charges against American service members, these same courts should provide ample justice to terrorists as well.)
- requires humane treatment of persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including detainees since removed from combat, without discrimination based on ethnicity, religion, gender or wealth
- prohibits violence to life and person, such as murder, mutilation, torture and cruel treatment
- prohibits “outrages upon personal dignity” including “humiliating and degrading treatment” (think, Reservists convicted over their Abu Graib follies).

(thanks to others for their literary contributions here)
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?March 22, 2008 11:17:15 PMRespond ^
hey have killing machines no one has seen yet, when asked why we are not using the most advanced weapons availabe ? I was told by a general, that we dont want them knowing our true capabilities, in case this expands to a wider war. and we would need to have a higher ratio of capabilities. say 1000 to one.
Posted by:j.l.meiersMarch 29, 2008 10:57:14 AMRespond ^
It"s way past time to sign the U.S. back into the I.C.C retroactively, and prosecute those responsible or the death of all civilians.
Posted by:Ustah B. ProwdApril 12, 2008 3:23:37 PMRespond ^
Must everyone complain about EVERYTHING the U.S. Military does? Some people will convince you that they can do nothing noble or right for the world. War is an ugly thing and sometimes innocent people die. I find it funny that most of those who do the complaining are able to sit comfortably in their living rooms and form judgments on people in bad situations that were trying to do the right thing when a situation went from bad to worse. The Military is a tool designed to protect. If you have a problem about how the tool is being used, don't blame the tool, blame the one holding it.
Posted by:mikeMay 1, 2008 2:49:39 AMRespond ^
Excellent post Mike!
Posted by:Did my part, how 'bout u?May 31, 2008 7:58:55 AMRespond ^
Home of the free= highest incarceration rate in human history
Land of the Brave= murder by autonomous robotic airborne killing machine.
Posted by:captainchrisJune 29, 2008 6:00:45 AMRespond ^
Anytime civilians are killed or maimed by these very expensive and illegal methods, it is a war crime. There will be many war crime trials of US military personnel, CIA operatives and their political masters over the next decade or so. Any travel outside the United States will quite perilous for those connected to these crimes, especially the Justice department attorneys like John Yoo who attempted to give Bush/Cheney conspirators legal cover for their criminal actions!
Posted by:TeoNovember 23, 2008 2:40:26 PMRespond ^

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