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Am I a Torturer?

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In the summer of 2003, the interrogators threw a detainee against a concrete wall, punched him in the neck and gut, kicked him in the knees, threw him outside, and dragged him back in by his hair. For the entire two-hour ordeal, the prisoner wouldn't talk; Ben later found out he spoke Farsi and couldn't understand the interrogators' English and Arabic. Afterward, Ben hid behind a building and cried for the first time since his dad's death. "It was like a loss of humanity. Like we were trading one dictator in for another. I had to weigh my integrity against my duty. Why couldn't I stand up more? Why was I hesitant?"

Ben told me this as we were sitting in his bedroom back home in Little Rock; by the end of the story he had climbed into bed and pulled blankets up around him and was hugging a pillow. There were tears in his eyes, and he apologized for being so "weird about this stuff." Ben writes poetry, and he's fiercely loyal to his Army buddies. But now, for the briefest moment, I saw rage in his eyes.

War, ben was discovering, is "not like what you see on TV. It's insanely boring and depressing." His trip home at Thanksgiving in 2003 lasted just long enough for him to discover that his girlfriend had a new man. Back at Tiger, he joined a group of grunts watching a Michael Moore dvd. It struck a chord with them. "I was never political before I went to Iraq. But I was already disgruntled and fed up just being in Iraq. The movie made me angrier."

It wasn't Fahrenheit 9/11 that so resonated with the soldiers; it was Roger & Me, a documentary that follows the decline of Flint, Michigan, after the General Motors plants closed down. Ben saw "connections between U.S. policies away and at home, how the administration is willing to sacrifice regular people. They were throwing people out of their homes in Flint just like we were taking people out of their homes in Iraq. We got all misty-eyed. It was emotional and had a lingering effect on us."

Ben began to think about what was behind the abuses he'd seen. Soldiers were sent off to war with the promise that they'd be heroes. They had been trained to kill bad guys, not baby-sit detainees. "You need to think that you're there for a reason, that there is some purpose," Ben says. But now people at home were saying the war was a mistake; body counts were mere blips in the news. When Ben first arrived in Iraq, he played soccer with locals; a few months later Iraqis wouldn't even set foot on the base. More and more, the soldiers turned their anger on the prisoners. They poked them with rifles, called them "towel heads" and "sand niggers." Guards would let other soldiers "snag a guy to fuck with or whatever, as long as it didn't leave a mark."

About a month after Ben left Tiger for good, an insurgency leader detained there, Maj. General Abed Hamed Mowhoush, was suffocated in a sleeping bag—a technique that, like waterboarding, Ben had heard was used but had never seen. The General, as he was known, was one of the 160-plus detainees who have died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since August 2002, according to aclu attorney Hina Shamsi. Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer, the man accused of murdering Mowhoush, claimed he'd been following orders. In 2006, he was convicted of negligent homicide and dereliction of duty and sentenced to 60 days of barracks confinement, the equivalent of house arrest.

After ben came home in March 2004, he was treated warmly. "I was at Applebee's one night and a guy overheard that I had just come back from Iraq," he recalls, "so he bought me a Jack and Coke." He was offered discounts on cell phones and cars. "I finally felt appreciated after feeling used for so long."

But the welcomes couldn't silence the questions that kept him up at night. Ben loves to debate, perhaps because he usually wins, but now he was endlessly, fruitlessly arguing with himself. "Every human being instinctively knows right from wrong. There is never a justification for torture." But then again, "Is softening people up wrong on some levels? I don't know. It wasn't beneficial to them, but it was presented as necessary." He had seen a side of himself he didn't know existed, and now he had to live with that. "In combat you question your mortality," he told me. "In these prisons you question your morality."

I asked Ben point-blank if he considered himself a torturer. It was a hard question to ask, a harder one to answer. He said he didn't know. He asked me how other soldiers in his situation had responded. Most, I told him, didn't even brook use of the word "torture" instead of "harsh interrogation." He finally said he guessed he didn't want to have to think of himself that way, and that it was time to go meet his girlfriend.

When he first got back from Iraq, Ben had nightmares and couldn't remember things; this was infuriating, since he'd always prided himself on his perfect memory. A psychiatrist diagnosed him with ptsd, but he refused medication. Instead he blew $14,000 on bar tabs his first four months home. "I drank every night. I'd wake up next to a stranger at around 4 p.m. and head off to the strip club again." He traveled some, because "you can reinvent yourself when you're out of town." He also reenlisted; he'll be on active duty until 2013, which means that once a month he has to cut his perfectly messy hair and show up at the local base. He thinks the military needs people like him, "people who can see both sides of things."

When Ben first started speaking out about torture, posting to blogs and testifying for a human rights group, he didn't use his real name. Then, gradually, he grew bolder. Brandon, his high school friend, Army buddy, and now roommate, encouraged him, so long as he wasn't trying to become famous. He got the occasional blog flame—"un-American commie bastard"—but there was none of the reprisal from the Army that he'd feared. Nor, for that matter, any call from the various military investigators looking into human rights abuses. No one seemed to care.

People cared when Specialist Joseph Darby spoke out, though not always in the way he would have wanted them to. Darby is the Army reservist who turned in the Abu Ghraib photos. He hates the term "whistleblower," which is understandable, since it's earned him others like "rat" and "traitor." He's gotten death threats, from phone calls and emails to just whispers around his hometown of Cumberland, Maryland. His sister-in-law's house was vandalized; his wife was verbally harassed and the police refused to help.

I met with Darby at a Starbucks in a strip mall along a busy four-lane route. He is still in a sort of witness-protection program the military put him in after his role in the scandal was revealed. He didn't want me to detail his appearance, which has changed somewhat from the recognizable round face that appeared in magazines and on television. This, he said, was his last interview before he put Abu Ghraib behind him forever.

He said being in hiding wasn't so tough; he'd always kept to himself. His marriage was rocky while he was in Iraq, and seclusion had forced the couple back together. Whenever our conversation got difficult, he fiddled with his wedding ring.

Darby joined the Army Reserves for tuition money when he was 17, but he never did end up going to college. Instead, after returning from a deployment in Bosnia in June 2002, he found construction work off the books. Eight months later, he was called up again to go to Iraq. When his unit was assigned to guard prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Darby asked for a job where he wouldn't have too much contact with the detainees; with his temper, he didn't trust himself around the Iraqis. He became the guy you called to get a mop, garbage bags, or meals brought up to the tiers.

Unlike Ben, Darby didn't witness any abuse; he came across the torture photos by accident. The desert heat had warped his own snapshots, so he asked Corporal Charles Graner for some pictures, hoping for images of camels and tanks. Scrolling through the CD, he laughed when he saw the pyramid of naked Iraqis. Then he got to the simulated-fellatio pictures.

He insists he's not a goody-two-shoes tattletale or a saint by any stretch. "I'm as crooked as the next MP," he explains. "I've bent laws and I've broke laws." Months earlier, Graner (who is now serving a 10-year sentence) had shown him a photo of a prisoner tied up in a stress position and said, "The Christian in me knows this is wrong, but the corrections officer in me can't help but love to make a grown man piss himself." Darby says he was too tired to think much about it.

It took him three weeks of soul-searching to decide whether he should turn in the photos. He finally took them not to his superior officers but to the Army investigation office, where soldiers can report everything from sexual harassment to theft—a breach of the chain of command that many would later hold against him. Four months later, Darby was sitting in the Abu Ghraib mess hall; cnn was on, showing Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's congressional testimony on prisoner abuse. Darby had no idea his tip—which military investigators had assured him would remain anonymous—had led to a national scandal. He heard Rumsfeld name various people who'd provided information—"first the soldier, Specialist Joseph Darby, who alerted the appropriate authorities...My thanks and appreciation to him for his courage and his values."

Darby dropped his fork midbite. Oh shit. He felt 400 pairs of eyes on him. Seymour Hersh had already published his name, but as Darby says, "Who reads the damn New Yorker?"

His mom was dying of cancer; now, the compassionate-leave request he had filed a week before was rushed through. When his plane touched down stateside, officers were there with his wife. They escorted the couple to an undisclosed location, where they lived with around-the-clock security for the next six months. He didn't get the formal thank-you he'd expected from the Army, though a personal letter from Rumsfeld arrived at one point—asking him to stop talking about how he'd been outed.

When the Abu Ghraib photos splashed on television sets, people in Cumberland watched, hoping their loved ones weren't involved. Not all were so lucky. Kenneth England saw the pictures of his daughter, Lynndie, as did the welders and machinists who work with him at the csx railroad. They supported him as best they knew how: by not mentioning it. While Pentagon flacks spun the scandal as the work of a few bad apples from Appalachia, people in the area hung yellow ribbons and "hometown hero" posters for the accused MPs. Reservists' wives organized candlelight vigils.

"Everybody needs his time over there to mean or count for something," Sergeant Ken Davis, a teetotaler nicknamed Preacher Man by the other MPs at Abu Ghraib, told me. "It has to be right in the greater scheme of things. But if the U.S. government was truly at the helm, ordering the abuse, then it actually means nothing. And now we live with ghosts and demons that will haunt us for the rest of our lives."

Davis, who has a clean, bleachy smell to him and says "dang" a lot, was in some of the photos, and he says he reported the abuse to his superior. For that, people at the police department near Cumberland where he worked call him a narc. He's become an Abu Ghraib junkie, attending the trials, testifying at some, collecting photos and evidence, corresponding with the accused. It's a way, he says, to get closure. "A lot of soldiers, when we come back, are lost. You don't belong anymore. It's especially true for a unit accused of abuse, when you hear lies about what happened and people deny what you saw." At 37, he's particularly worried about the younger soldiers he served with. "They were put in situations where they had to do things they didn't agree with just to survive," he says. "All they know about being an adult is the military. We've got a lost generation on our hands."

Military recruiters always had it easy in Cumberland. Beyond honor, responsibility, and meaning, they pitched a paycheck and a ticket out. It was on the steps of Cumberland's City Hall that Lyndon B. Johnson first announced his War on Poverty back in 1964, but neither the coal mining industry, the railway, nor a series of short-lived manufacturing booms could win that battle. Of the big factories in the area, only the paper mill is still open. One in five residents live below the poverty line, a third more than the national average. A food bank operates out of a former bread factory. In February 2007, a high school football player shot himself during a game of Russian roulette.

I often asked people in town what they thought about the war, but conversation inevitably turned to jobs. Supporting the troops was akin to union solidarity—a pact among the people doing the country's grunt work. As one ex-Marine told me, "Sometimes you just have to do what you can to get by. And you have to be able to believe in the validity of what you're doing."

People told me the threat against Darby was exaggerated. The university's chaplain had been harassed for hosting an anti-war event, the newspaper's columnist threatened for advocating gun control, but no harm had come to either of them. Colin Engelbach, the commander of the local vfw post—who called Darby a "borderline traitor" on national television—said that by "get him," people just meant they would make Darby's life hell.

Engelbach is a small guy whose eyes had trouble meeting mine. He spent ten years in the National Guard and four on active duty, though he didn't see combat. Now he works double shifts making depleted-uranium munitions at Alliant Tech. For several months after our interview, he called me with "dirt" on Darby; the overall message was that Darby had put himself before his comrades, that he was not a real American.

"People aren't pissed because I turned someone in for abuse," Darby told me. "People are pissed because I turned in an American soldier for abusing an Iraqi. They don't care about right and wrong."

Photo: Sarah Wilson


 

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I will forever remember the Pentagon, White House, et al hiding behind PFC Lynndie England's skirts. I will forever remember the HATE (it was reported in the media that Lynndie was not welcomed at Fort Bragg) - and how her baby was demeaned at birth at Fort Bragg. Who thought holdhing her hearing at Fort Bragg was a good idea? Turns out, it wasn't a good idea and was sent to Texas.
Posted by:myrakMarch 3, 2008 2:54:14 PMRespond ^
The Quran quotes Queen of Sheba saying thus, 'She said: Surely the kings, when they enter a town, ruin it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do (link: http://en.knowquran.org/koran/27/)'.

Ben could take comfort in the above passage by understanding that it is the nature of war. Redemption comes after realizing your mistake and making amends for it.
Posted by:MRMarch 3, 2008 7:46:46 PMRespond ^
It's a very sad story. I have no sympathy whatsoever for someone who can't/won't/didn't think the Iraq war through. Deal with it.
Posted by:ObserverMarch 4, 2008 11:15:00 AMRespond ^
Sorry, but you'd hang at Nueremberg. Following orders has never been an excuse and I don't make up the rules.
Posted by:genevaMarch 5, 2008 11:58:51 AMRespond ^
What would have happened if George Bush had never invaded Iraq? What would have happened if these young men and women had never been given the assignment,much less the orders and encouragement, to behave that way to another human being? Why weren't the president and vice-president impeached and sent to the Hague for trial along with Rumsfeld? An invertebrate Congress is as much to blame as anyone in the big picture. But "the correction officer in me" line also reminds us that some Americans can be as sadistic as any other nationality. Those people will always find the easiest way to be what they are. As for the rest of us, like the young soldiers profiled in this article, they will either remain in conflict and take a stand or not. But unlike these soldiers, we didn't sign up for whatever the current government was advocating and don't have to remember the stink of suffering and barbarism. Personally, I think it would help them sleep to know that those really in charge were held accountable.
Posted by:lindaMarch 5, 2008 2:18:33 PMRespond ^
Brandon's story is the exact same story of everything that went on at Abu Ghraib down to a murder committed by the CIA.

We are bad apples because of those pictures but if not for those pictures some family would not even know there father/husband/brother etc.. had been murdered in prison by the CIA and dayshift MP's (not us who were charged). I guess Brandon and many other Mp's were lucky they already had enough scapegoats for one scandal.

Darby had no idea what orders were being given and what was going on in the prison as his overweight sorry butt was assigned to the TOC. He was a convient hero for the gov.
Thanks for speaking of things of which you had absolutely no clue.

www.supportmpscapegoats.com
Posted by:Megan GranerMarch 5, 2008 5:21:38 PMRespond ^
To answer the question...YES.

But you are a victim of the most corrupt and criminal administration in the history of this country.

You essentially had to follow orders or risk retaliation. I do not know what I would have done under similar circumstances as I do not know what my options would have been.

I do know this, ALL officers that condoned these actions all the way up to the Shrub, should be tried and convicted of war crimes.

To make matters worse it is well documented that actions as you were required to take DO NOT WORK to get valid information. These are actions of a psycopathic nation.
Posted by:Shrub the War CriminialMarch 5, 2008 6:57:17 PMRespond ^
I read this story and thought it was something new. But sadly, it is the same old material, hashed around a bit, and put out as another story, old news rewritten
Posted by:robert okaneMarch 5, 2008 10:16:36 PMRespond ^
I have to agree with the person who said "you'd hang at Nuremberg. How is is that you are not afforded the rank of human being until you are upgraded from "detainee" to "prisoner of war". This war has no actual "prisoners", only victims. We victimize them, and our military victimizes our own.
Posted by:PeacekeeperMarch 6, 2008 3:26:38 AMRespond ^
You were a willing participant in an illegal war. It's an all volunteer force. You should be tried and convicted as a war criminal.

As I'm often fond of saying, "F*U*C*K the Troops!
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 6, 2008 7:50:21 AMRespond ^
Something seems wrong with the training. Maybe the USA is not used to what it means to occupy a country. While Bush/Cheney are responsible for this atrocious war, I strongly doubt that they would have given this kind of instructions to act. It would be easily traceable and would implicate them directly. To me it seems like military training these days fails to address the issue of how to treat prisoners properly. Or at the very least the lessons didn't sink in.
Posted by:MalMarch 6, 2008 8:07:40 AMRespond ^
Where can I find the criticisms of the terrorists? I've been looking all over this site and all that I can find are a bunch of people posting comments about how rotten this country is. No this country is not perfect, and when held up in the light of non-existent utopia, sure it shows flaws. But utopia is a fairy tale and this is still the best country that has come along yet.
F.U.C.K the troops? Really? Seriously? If you feel so strongly then you should act on your feelings and leave. It is a free country. There are no walls keeping you in bro. If there's a better place out there then go. Find your happy place. I guess that the price of freedom for me is having the knowledge that there are idiots like you; taking for granted all of the blessings that you've been given.
Posted by:normalMarch 6, 2008 9:47:58 AMRespond ^
For "normal":

"Where can I find the criticisms of the terrorists?"

And why is it those terrorists exist, with their goals of terrorizing? And why are they targeting certain governments? Don't tell me you're one of those who believes the "they hate our freedom" tripe.

"But utopia is a fairy tale and this is still the best country that has come along yet."

One of the points of criticizing this country is that the wealth and prosperity of this country has all too often come at the expense and detriment of others. Just trace the reasons for current anti-U.S. terrorism and find a few examples of that.

"If you feel so strongly then you should act on your feelings and leave. It is a free country. There are no walls keeping you in bro."

Hilarious.

"taking for granted all of the blessings that you've been given."

You take the foundation of your country for granted. You obviously are convinced that it is not largely founded upon the suffering and destruction of other cultures.

Get real.
Posted by:JDMarch 6, 2008 2:31:14 PMRespond ^
You obviously have no grasp of the true history of the USA or the fact that there are other countries treat their citizens like humans not automatons. There are other counties that keep their nose out of other people's business.

Grow up and get a life.
Posted by:GGMarch 6, 2008 4:40:42 PMRespond ^
I did leave, so abnormal, IN YOUR FACE!
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 6, 2008 4:43:10 PMRespond ^
It's so funny, all Americans that never left their country think that the USA is the greatest country in the world, but all Americans travelling abroad tend to disagree with that.

So, pack your bag, buy a plane ticket to *somewhere* and learn!
Posted by:localJMarch 6, 2008 11:57:57 PMRespond ^
abba is worse
Posted by:ronMarch 7, 2008 4:26:14 AMRespond ^
fuik deze zeui, als dr 1 de baas is ben ik het.
Posted by:chrisMarch 7, 2008 8:53:05 AMRespond ^
joe ar nothing like me zemmer
Posted by:chrisMarch 7, 2008 8:53:51 AMRespond ^
"F.U.C.K. the Troops" !???! Seriously buddy, if it weren't for the troops you certainly wouldn't even be able to say that and, incidentally, would probably be a "detained" for even thinking it.

So maybe you might want to start thanking the troops instead.
Posted by:KelleMarch 7, 2008 3:14:29 PMRespond ^
Kelle) I can understand your wanting to vouchsafe the troops, but do you actually comprehend what you are saying? The Nation founded on Liberty and Freedom has Thought Police that should lock you away in a stinkhole for thinking bad political thoughts? Doesn't that sound like the Gestapo or PKK or the taliban...?
Posted by:Lew CrissMarch 8, 2008 10:06:04 AMRespond ^
Geneva, you are quick to criticise and a dispassionate soul and need to walk in Ben's shoes for a while before judging him.

DrBones,
Chill out, you are clearly too angry for your own good.
Posted by:OutsiderMarch 8, 2008 6:46:01 PMRespond ^
Dr Bones's pu**y, weenie, GEN-X a** needs to BURN IN HELL for ETERNITY, though that's a bit too good for him!
Posted by:King of ShebaMarch 11, 2008 3:58:47 PMRespond ^
How eager today's Americans are to see our soldiers hang and be accused. How readily they would throw them into the fire without a second thought. How painstakingly they split hairs to defend the terrorists or "freedom fighters". The American people of today, particularly the 20 & 30-somethings are truly unworthy of being defended.
Posted by:splendeMarch 19, 2008 6:58:25 PMRespond ^
It is a war. It's not a nice happy thing. There is no pretty way to do it. So the trick is to stay out of everyone elses country and not start wars. But if we are going to go to a war then people need to understand that these bad things are going to happen. We should bring all the troops back and have them do something worth wile in our country. Send them into bad neighborhods. Fight criminals in citys where the police are strapped and out gunned. Help america not the middle east!
Posted by:chrisMarch 22, 2008 7:49:45 PMRespond ^
US Torture is just a reflection of the people in general. The same sort of mistreatment takes place in the US prisons, where it is all with the approval of the US public. It is no surprise that the US didn’t prosecute the guilty parties and had a few white wash trials to cover up the country’s sins. The same is the case with the US civilian courts as well, where the legal system is based on corrupt judges and a kangaroo court. The exoneration cases in Florida alone is a good testimony of such corruptions
Posted by:A GrunMarch 23, 2008 6:44:51 AMRespond ^
Extremely well-written story, exhaustively researched. Congrats. Very long, though. The details about Gretchen and so on seem superfluous considering the rest of the content. Generally, it could have been edited back by 1000 words or so. There's only so much "color" detail that's relevant. After that it starts to look over-indulgent.
Posted by:RosariaMarch 24, 2008 11:44:00 AMRespond ^
The troops repress freedom and murder. How is it that my ability to speak freely is dependent on them?

You are one shallow, brainwashed individual. BTW, I served in the USAF in the 80's. We weren't war criminals then.
Posted by:DrBonesMarch 25, 2008 7:49:18 AMRespond ^
You shouldn't type on meth or whatever party drug you take.
Posted by:DrBones666March 25, 2008 7:50:37 AMRespond ^
Defended from WHAT?

Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here?

Are you really that simple in the head?

Defend my from the neo-cons. Then they would have my respect.
Posted by:DrBones666March 25, 2008 7:52:47 AMRespond ^
TORTURE IS TORTURE. WORKING AT A PRISON CAMP CAN GET YOU ARRESTED 40 YEARS LATER FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. AND JUST BEING A MINOR GUARD IS NO EXCUSE.. WAR CRIMES ARE WAR CRIMES...PUNISHABLE BY HANGING.
Posted by:J T WALSHMarch 27, 2008 8:01:53 PMRespond ^
@MR-- do you even know what you're talking about? What gives you an intimate understanding of the Quran? By using the Quran as your proof do you seek to justify what happens in Iraq?

Ben should not take "comfort" from that verse. That verse is an insight into the minds of tyrants; Bush, Cheney, and Company.

This isn't something you can blame on human nature as you would have others believe. Torture is not the nature of war. It's the nature of cruelty and oppression, and cowards.

"Redemption comes after you realize your mistake"? Do you really see that in store for the people of Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan?

Ben should hang. His decisions were his own, and he volunteered for this 'mission'. He had the balls to torture a 'detainee' (note: detainee
Posted by:TruthApril 3, 2008 1:23:14 PMRespond ^
As soon as you decide to live by the idea that "the ends justify the means" you lose the right to be considered civilized. I realize that terrorism is a very complex and horrifying problem, but responding with like for like has never, never solved anything. Torture is torture, no matter who uses it on whom. There are no good guys when it comes to abusing your fellow humans, regardless of ideological or religious or political differences.
Posted by:CherylApril 7, 2008 6:50:32 PMRespond ^
While I think the use of torture is absolutely NEVER acceptable and I believe all parties involved need to take full responsibility for their actions (scapegoat or not) - I'm both disturbed and surprised by how many posters have commented that Ben should hang.

These remarks seem to simply highlight a lust for vengeance, a thirst to continue a cycle of violence. There's so much anger on all sides of the issue and it would be an oversimplification of the situation to think of it in black and white. With that mindset, we are one step away from being the guards ourselves.

I would think our goals should not be to seek revenge and take a life for a life, but to seek solutions outside of violence and require the perpetrators of these crimes against humanity to use the rest of their lives to the restoration of civilization through non-violent, non-aggressive, and non-profit means.
Posted by:JustPassingThroughApril 11, 2008 10:12:04 AMRespond ^
to blindly follow orders...sounds like the Holocaust. I have never forgiven Germany for its silent complicity and I will never forgive our own soldiers for theirs.

And as to their leaders. Not worthy of a backward glance.
Posted by:mz fontaineApril 13, 2008 8:37:39 AMRespond ^
Torture does not work. Freedom, Liberty, Justice for ALL, Innocent until proven guilty. Do any of these concepts sound familiar to all of you gunho kill brown people "patriots" out there. And to those who think every MP who was complicit should be hung; Let's get the commanders who are responsible for this and punnish people according to their crimes. Innocent until proven guilty (unless you are still a Republican).
Posted by:unidioticApril 16, 2008 8:52:10 AMRespond ^
Sad to see so many people placing blame on others, and passing judgement without ever being in these soldiers situations. I'm at fault in the regard that I have an opinion that is radical also, but telling someone they shouldn't be given any consolation or berating others for having an opinion that goe against the norm of this tiny thread is just ignorance. Yes, the history upon which this country was flawed, but i'm sure those other countries who "treat their citizens like humans, not automatons" weren't spawned without war, or torture, or sacrifice. Go free speech!
Posted by:DVMay 2, 2008 1:33:52 AMRespond ^
Oustanding post by splende:

"How eager today's Americans are to see our soldiers hang and be accused. How readily they would throw them into the fire without a second thought. How painstakingly they split hairs to defend the terrorists or "freedom fighters". The American people of today, particularly the 20 & 30-somethings are truly unworthy of being defended."

Spot on Splende! Bravo.
Posted by:Did My Part, How 'Bout U?June 4, 2008 9:07:50 AMRespond ^
God No,

He can remember "All men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights . . . " or

"As you do unto the least of them . . . so you do unto me."

Respectfully, these guys respect for coming forward not consolation for having hurt people because they were just following orders.
Posted by:NancyJune 18, 2008 11:47:53 AMRespond ^
I understand that each soldier is responsible for their own actions. At the same time, a greater responsibility is laid on the political leaders who decided to go to war against the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. There are governments that are just as bad (or worse? Myanmar? China?). Is there a link between these conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the decline in the US Dollar, the rise in oil prices, and Bush's Big Oil interests? How would his request (yesterday?) to open up the US coast for oil-drilling fit into this picture? What did Hamid Karzai (present leader of Afghanistan) do professionally before he was appointed head of the country? Am I seeing a trend or simply creating my own conspiracy?

And while I question myself, it seems apparent that I am often painting many people (soldiers, politicians, Iraqis, etc) with a big brush. Bush is painting the Iranian government one-way. The Iranians are painting Bush (and America) another way. I've been out of America for 18 years, but I still feel that we need to stop swallowing the rhetoric (from both sides) and dig into what's really going on here.
Posted by:knd-irlJune 19, 2008 12:08:16 AMRespond ^
I am against the invasion/occupation of Iraq for a number of reasons, and the inhumane treatment of prisoners is just one more 'bullet' on the list. I think the military got led/shoved into a situation by people with motives that were pure profit, I call it The Mother Of All Snowjobs, I myself was once in an Army uniform, but I've concluded that it's not really that great an institution anymore, fraud, incompetence, no small amount of hubris, and then there's Dick Cheney et. al., yeah, I'm all done being in the service. One thing that's really interesting is how I kept getting these job offers through Careerbuilder to take work in Iraq. Not doing that, either.
The war was about oil. I'll say it again, the war was about oil. We've got oilmen/women in our government today, I think they cooked up quite the sunshine story to facilitate the seizure of Iraq's oilfields, and it kind of blew up in their face, there. The oil-biz itself is fairly crooked to begin with, and, well, it looks like the troops are going to continue to be there for some time. I just hope that Congress reasserts its' lawful authority as a Body to start taking real steps to bring the situation to a close, get our troops out of Iraq and probably some other countries too, and turn our national energies full-force in the direction of energy independence, as well as political reforms such as might be required to prevent a recurrence of Iraq. That's my view.
Posted by:BertJune 21, 2008 7:13:42 PMRespond ^
Scapegoating is a terrible, cowardly practice but that doesn't mean the people labeled "scapegoats" don't also deserve to be tried as war criminals. There is a lot of blood on a lot of hands over this matter and just because some of those hands are trying to pin it on some of those other hands doesn't mean either deserve any kind of respect or clemency.

No sympathy for these scumbags. I hope every last one of these torturing bastards gets stop-lossed and blown to chunks by IEDs.
Posted by:WilliamJuly 15, 2008 7:18:55 PMRespond ^
Conservatives are not human.

They are no better than the dust I walk on.

If they would allow a human being to be treated this way for their insane nationalism, I say [deleted] them; [deleted] every one of them. They are insane, they are frightening, and they are utterly devoid of compassion or integrity.
Posted by:KatharineJuly 15, 2008 7:56:51 PMRespond ^
Katherine,

"Conservatives are not human" Wow! The pot calls the kettle black, for what they both, alas, do lack. Nice to hear your version of compassion and integrity. You are just exchanging one version of hate-mongering for another.

Knd-Irl

Posted by:knd.irlJuly 18, 2008 2:01:49 AMRespond ^

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